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	<title>Comments on: Saturday Morning Hangover Kvetch and Open Thread</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/06/14/saturday-morning-hangover-kvetch-and-open-thread/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/06/14/saturday-morning-hangover-kvetch-and-open-thread/</link>
	<description>People United Means Action</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:24:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: DancesWithPumas</title>
		<link>http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/06/14/saturday-morning-hangover-kvetch-and-open-thread/comment-page-19/#comment-16830</link>
		<dc:creator>DancesWithPumas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 05:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pumapac.org/?p=54#comment-16830</guid>
		<description>This piece entitled “Analysis: Obama chose winning over his word”, topped off my evening quite nicely. 

This line sums it up:
&quot;Every time Obama&#039;s change rhetoric meets his actual change record it evaporates in a cloud of hypocrisy.&quot;

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080619/ap_on_el_pr/obama_money_analysis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This piece entitled “Analysis: Obama chose winning over his word”, topped off my evening quite nicely. </p>
<p>This line sums it up:<br />
&#8220;Every time Obama&#8217;s change rhetoric meets his actual change record it evaporates in a cloud of hypocrisy.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080619/ap_on_el_pr/obama_money_analysis" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080619/ap_on_el_pr/obama_money_analysis</a></p>
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		<title>By: cosmeta</title>
		<link>http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/06/14/saturday-morning-hangover-kvetch-and-open-thread/comment-page-19/#comment-14579</link>
		<dc:creator>cosmeta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pumapac.org/?p=54#comment-14579</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s another website to find your House representatives:

https://forms.house.gov/wyr/welcome.shtml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s another website to find your House representatives:</p>
<p><a href="https://forms.house.gov/wyr/welcome.shtml" rel="nofollow">https://forms.house.gov/wyr/welcome.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: floridadem</title>
		<link>http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/06/14/saturday-morning-hangover-kvetch-and-open-thread/comment-page-19/#comment-14167</link>
		<dc:creator>floridadem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pumapac.org/?p=54#comment-14167</guid>
		<description>Every time I see an Obama rally, I&#039;m almost embarrased for the Obama fans who have a glazed, hypnotized demeanor.  Even I have recognized times when something Hillary Clinton said on the campaign trail resulted in my disappointment.  How can critically-thinking adults have so much unfettered adoration for a candidate?  None of them are perfect and constructive criticism shapes them to be better candidates.  I honestly think the Obamites are worshipping at the altar.  It&#039;s sickening.  My neighbors have always disliked Senator Clinton and even they said it was reprehensible the way the media absolutely savaged her during this primary campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every time I see an Obama rally, I&#8217;m almost embarrased for the Obama fans who have a glazed, hypnotized demeanor.  Even I have recognized times when something Hillary Clinton said on the campaign trail resulted in my disappointment.  How can critically-thinking adults have so much unfettered adoration for a candidate?  None of them are perfect and constructive criticism shapes them to be better candidates.  I honestly think the Obamites are worshipping at the altar.  It&#8217;s sickening.  My neighbors have always disliked Senator Clinton and even they said it was reprehensible the way the media absolutely savaged her during this primary campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: cosmeta</title>
		<link>http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/06/14/saturday-morning-hangover-kvetch-and-open-thread/comment-page-19/#comment-11781</link>
		<dc:creator>cosmeta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pumapac.org/?p=54#comment-11781</guid>
		<description>Please excuse my last post and all the typos... I am slightly dyslectic and often mis-type; my brain working faster than my hands. ~Sorry.

Should have been,

NOW is *our* time!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please excuse my last post and all the typos&#8230; I am slightly dyslectic and often mis-type; my brain working faster than my hands. ~Sorry.</p>
<p>Should have been,</p>
<p>NOW is *our* time!</p>
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		<title>By: cosmeta</title>
		<link>http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/06/14/saturday-morning-hangover-kvetch-and-open-thread/comment-page-19/#comment-11772</link>
		<dc:creator>cosmeta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pumapac.org/?p=54#comment-11772</guid>
		<description>A MUST SEE YOU TUBE VIDEO depicting the DEMANDS of BHO as expressed by his wife during the campaign season.


Added:  June 09, 2008
YouTube - The CHANGE MAKER - Friends of Barack Obama
The REAL Obama - and his REAL agenda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyqnLpPTFco


If anyone has watched all of BHO&#039;s speeches throughout the campaign, as I had, then you can clearly see that BHO started out talking to his black &quot;base&quot; using such terms as, the &quot;fierce urgency of now&quot; said by Martin Luther King;  or when he mentioned the march on Selma and then the very next sentence mentioned the phrase NOW is out Time. So that by the time we got to June 3rd and the last primaries, that phrase NOW is out time became all encompasing. Yet I cannot get away for the feeling inside of me that he was STILL talking to his base but in CODE. That CODE is a black libertarian agenda and reflects the words and teachings of Rev Jeremiah Wright, in my not so humble opinion.

He is not a man of the people --- he is a man about the business of his people; and that is a very dangerous position for any US President to emulate.

IT&#039;S EITHER
HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT!
OR JOHN McCAIN

There can be no others!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A MUST SEE YOU TUBE VIDEO depicting the DEMANDS of BHO as expressed by his wife during the campaign season.</p>
<p>Added:  June 09, 2008<br />
YouTube &#8211; The CHANGE MAKER &#8211; Friends of Barack Obama<br />
The REAL Obama &#8211; and his REAL agenda.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyqnLpPTFco" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyqnLpPTFco</a></p>
<p>If anyone has watched all of BHO&#8217;s speeches throughout the campaign, as I had, then you can clearly see that BHO started out talking to his black &#8220;base&#8221; using such terms as, the &#8220;fierce urgency of now&#8221; said by Martin Luther King;  or when he mentioned the march on Selma and then the very next sentence mentioned the phrase NOW is out Time. So that by the time we got to June 3rd and the last primaries, that phrase NOW is out time became all encompasing. Yet I cannot get away for the feeling inside of me that he was STILL talking to his base but in CODE. That CODE is a black libertarian agenda and reflects the words and teachings of Rev Jeremiah Wright, in my not so humble opinion.</p>
<p>He is not a man of the people &#8212; he is a man about the business of his people; and that is a very dangerous position for any US President to emulate.</p>
<p>IT&#8217;S EITHER<br />
HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT!<br />
OR JOHN McCAIN</p>
<p>There can be no others!!!</p>
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		<title>By: DancesWithPumas</title>
		<link>http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/06/14/saturday-morning-hangover-kvetch-and-open-thread/comment-page-19/#comment-10816</link>
		<dc:creator>DancesWithPumas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 02:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pumapac.org/?p=54#comment-10816</guid>
		<description>Murphy:
Since the coalitions conference call over this weekend, Riverdaughter has recommended that people join Just Say No Deal. PUMA is being discussed / questioned at The Confluence. You&#039;re probably the best one to answer some of the questions that are arising. 
Example follows:

&quot;I’m with those who want to see more information on the composition and aims of this group before signing on.

I was somewhat alarmed to see that something calling itself PUMAPAC had formed within days of PUMA being mentioned here. Are we sure that this isn’t just someone who decided to co-opt the slogan for their own gain or to further their own political goals? Is is really a PAC/527, registered with the FEC? Where is the money they are soliciting going, who controls is and what is it being used for? Also, why was the meaning of PUMA rapidly changed from “Party Unity My Ass” to the wimpier and less meaningful “People United Means Action”? 

It’s going to be impossible for me to get on board with this group and really trust its direction without some answers to these and other questions. The absolute worst thing we could do is get involved in something that ends up being moved in a direction we do not support by people whose aims and motives we are not privy to. I’ve seen that happen too many times in the past to just walk into this blindly.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Murphy:<br />
Since the coalitions conference call over this weekend, Riverdaughter has recommended that people join Just Say No Deal. PUMA is being discussed / questioned at The Confluence. You&#8217;re probably the best one to answer some of the questions that are arising.<br />
Example follows:</p>
<p>&#8220;I’m with those who want to see more information on the composition and aims of this group before signing on.</p>
<p>I was somewhat alarmed to see that something calling itself PUMAPAC had formed within days of PUMA being mentioned here. Are we sure that this isn’t just someone who decided to co-opt the slogan for their own gain or to further their own political goals? Is is really a PAC/527, registered with the FEC? Where is the money they are soliciting going, who controls is and what is it being used for? Also, why was the meaning of PUMA rapidly changed from “Party Unity My Ass” to the wimpier and less meaningful “People United Means Action”? </p>
<p>It’s going to be impossible for me to get on board with this group and really trust its direction without some answers to these and other questions. The absolute worst thing we could do is get involved in something that ends up being moved in a direction we do not support by people whose aims and motives we are not privy to. I’ve seen that happen too many times in the past to just walk into this blindly.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: WeezulBadjur</title>
		<link>http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/06/14/saturday-morning-hangover-kvetch-and-open-thread/comment-page-19/#comment-10363</link>
		<dc:creator>WeezulBadjur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pumapac.org/?p=54#comment-10363</guid>
		<description>#362  sassysenora on 06.14.08 at 5:36 pm

You said: &quot;if BO was born in HI, he’s a “natural born” citizen and meets the requirements of Art. 1. if he was born elsewhere, he may not be a “natural born” citizen.&quot;

WRONG!

In 1961

Any child born on US Soil = American Citizen by Birth

A child born of 2 US Citizens over the age of 21 = Natural Born American Citizen {Location irrelevant but there could be a residency requirement}

A child born with an American father over the age of 21 = American Citizen by Birth [ Might be Natural Born Citizen]

A child born with an American mother over the age of 21 = American Citizen by Birth  [ Might be Natural Born Citizen]

A child born of two Naturalized American Citizens over the age of 21 and fulfilling Residence Requirements = American Citizen by Birth  [ Might be Natural Born Citizen]

Barack Obama is an American Citizen by Birth but may not be a Natural Born Citizen.

Any child born of a British Subject father and acknowledged by him, legitimate or not = A British Subject. UK and Commonwealth Law from 1948

Under International Law, and US Law, the father&#039;s Nationality takes precedence where Dual Nationality exists, according to the 1961 views of the United Nations Legal experts. There is a huge and very boring Document covering this.

In 1963

Any child born of a Kenyan National father and acknowledged by him, legitimate or not = A Kenyan Citizen. Kenyan Law from Independence

In 1966

Any child adopted by an Indonesian Citizen = An Indonesian Citizen. Indonesian Legal Code

Barack Obama is one, or more, of these things British, Kenyan or Indonesian, and  an American Citizen by Birth.

Today and in the Past

An American Citizen can only hold Dual Nationality if the other country of which they hold Citizenship allows Dual Nationality to its Citizens, or makes a special individual exception.

Adopting the Nationality of another country can void US Citizenship.

It has been held that a person holding an ACTIVE Dual Nationality CANNOT be President, an Honorary, inactive or voided Dual Nationality would not count. But the only precedent is Canadian.

However no person of Dual Nationality ever stood for the Presidency prior to John McCain and all of the candidates who might have had some Citizenship problem were Republican.

The exact definition of a Natural Born Citizen has never been fully defined in Law by Congress or the Courts but it is a fact that American Citizen by Birth and Natural Born American Citizen are not identical concepts. 

People keep quoting the rather unclear US Laws, the UK and Kenyan Laws are crystal clear and Nationality isn&#039;t affected by where the person was born according to these Laws and the Nationality of the mother makes no difference either. It is sexist and the UK Laws have changed a lot since then but it is the 1961or 1963 Law that applies.

Whether Hawaii was a State or an Incorporated Territory at the time of Obama&#039;s birth changes nothing, it was US soil. The only argument there is one no US Court would ever accept, namely the contention by some legal experts that Hawaii is not and has never been a part of the USA [Google it, I can&#039;t be bothered, its frivolous.].

Whether or not his parents were married makes no difference. in any event the marriage, if it occurred at all, wouldn&#039;t have been regarded as legal under the laws of 16 of the States of the USA itself in 1961. In several Barack Obama Senior would have been considered guilty of Statutory Rape and would have stood a good chance of being lynched. In a couple Stanley Ann Dunham would have been Committed as Insane and her parents jailed for Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor.

WeezulBadjur

&quot;The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the party that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.&quot; ~ Lord Acton

&quot;No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Never give it.&quot; ~ Eleanor Roosevelt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#362  sassysenora on 06.14.08 at 5:36 pm</p>
<p>You said: &#8220;if BO was born in HI, he’s a “natural born” citizen and meets the requirements of Art. 1. if he was born elsewhere, he may not be a “natural born” citizen.&#8221;</p>
<p>WRONG!</p>
<p>In 1961</p>
<p>Any child born on US Soil = American Citizen by Birth</p>
<p>A child born of 2 US Citizens over the age of 21 = Natural Born American Citizen {Location irrelevant but there could be a residency requirement}</p>
<p>A child born with an American father over the age of 21 = American Citizen by Birth [ Might be Natural Born Citizen]</p>
<p>A child born with an American mother over the age of 21 = American Citizen by Birth  [ Might be Natural Born Citizen]</p>
<p>A child born of two Naturalized American Citizens over the age of 21 and fulfilling Residence Requirements = American Citizen by Birth  [ Might be Natural Born Citizen]</p>
<p>Barack Obama is an American Citizen by Birth but may not be a Natural Born Citizen.</p>
<p>Any child born of a British Subject father and acknowledged by him, legitimate or not = A British Subject. UK and Commonwealth Law from 1948</p>
<p>Under International Law, and US Law, the father&#8217;s Nationality takes precedence where Dual Nationality exists, according to the 1961 views of the United Nations Legal experts. There is a huge and very boring Document covering this.</p>
<p>In 1963</p>
<p>Any child born of a Kenyan National father and acknowledged by him, legitimate or not = A Kenyan Citizen. Kenyan Law from Independence</p>
<p>In 1966</p>
<p>Any child adopted by an Indonesian Citizen = An Indonesian Citizen. Indonesian Legal Code</p>
<p>Barack Obama is one, or more, of these things British, Kenyan or Indonesian, and  an American Citizen by Birth.</p>
<p>Today and in the Past</p>
<p>An American Citizen can only hold Dual Nationality if the other country of which they hold Citizenship allows Dual Nationality to its Citizens, or makes a special individual exception.</p>
<p>Adopting the Nationality of another country can void US Citizenship.</p>
<p>It has been held that a person holding an ACTIVE Dual Nationality CANNOT be President, an Honorary, inactive or voided Dual Nationality would not count. But the only precedent is Canadian.</p>
<p>However no person of Dual Nationality ever stood for the Presidency prior to John McCain and all of the candidates who might have had some Citizenship problem were Republican.</p>
<p>The exact definition of a Natural Born Citizen has never been fully defined in Law by Congress or the Courts but it is a fact that American Citizen by Birth and Natural Born American Citizen are not identical concepts. </p>
<p>People keep quoting the rather unclear US Laws, the UK and Kenyan Laws are crystal clear and Nationality isn&#8217;t affected by where the person was born according to these Laws and the Nationality of the mother makes no difference either. It is sexist and the UK Laws have changed a lot since then but it is the 1961or 1963 Law that applies.</p>
<p>Whether Hawaii was a State or an Incorporated Territory at the time of Obama&#8217;s birth changes nothing, it was US soil. The only argument there is one no US Court would ever accept, namely the contention by some legal experts that Hawaii is not and has never been a part of the USA [Google it, I can't be bothered, its frivolous.].</p>
<p>Whether or not his parents were married makes no difference. in any event the marriage, if it occurred at all, wouldn&#8217;t have been regarded as legal under the laws of 16 of the States of the USA itself in 1961. In several Barack Obama Senior would have been considered guilty of Statutory Rape and would have stood a good chance of being lynched. In a couple Stanley Ann Dunham would have been Committed as Insane and her parents jailed for Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor.</p>
<p>WeezulBadjur</p>
<p>&#8220;The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the party that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.&#8221; ~ Lord Acton</p>
<p>&#8220;No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Never give it.&#8221; ~ Eleanor Roosevelt</p>
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		<title>By: WeezulBadjur</title>
		<link>http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/06/14/saturday-morning-hangover-kvetch-and-open-thread/comment-page-19/#comment-10344</link>
		<dc:creator>WeezulBadjur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 18:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pumapac.org/?p=54#comment-10344</guid>
		<description>Have you ever wondered how two books by an obscure academic and politician nobody had ever heard of made him a millionaire? Well his books are published by Crown Books and Crown Books is owned by Bertelsman AG of Germany and Bertelsman AG is owned by the Bertelsman Foundation and the Mohn family. Look 
this lot up on the Internet and prepare to get frightened, because not only are they half the publishing houses in the world, the largest private broadcasting network in 
Europe, several film companies and 50% of Sony they have ties to the Nazi Regime for whom they published Propaganda and from whom they received large numbers of slave laborers (Oh yeah they were using slaves in the 1930s and 40s). 

On top of that, the Foundation is a neo liberal think tank (in the USA that means neo conservative) that funds active political and educational projects by its own 
members, spending millions of Euros a month. When the Company bought Random House in 1998 they falsified History to hide their Nazi connections and activities but had to publicly admit that they did so in 2002. They are well known for their attempts to subvert freedom of information, union activities and state controlled education and medicine.They formerly owned the controlling interest in AOL Europe, are still a major Internet Provider and have control of the German 
content of Wikipedia. Obama&#039;s current wealth is based on his advances from these guys. Still think he&#039;s different to Bush? He is, he&#039;s a lot worse! Bush&#039;s grandfather traded with the Nazis, Obama works for them. 

WeezulBadjur

&quot;The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the party
that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.&quot; ~ Lord Acton

&quot;No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Never give
it.&quot; ~ Eleanor Roosevelt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you ever wondered how two books by an obscure academic and politician nobody had ever heard of made him a millionaire? Well his books are published by Crown Books and Crown Books is owned by Bertelsman AG of Germany and Bertelsman AG is owned by the Bertelsman Foundation and the Mohn family. Look<br />
this lot up on the Internet and prepare to get frightened, because not only are they half the publishing houses in the world, the largest private broadcasting network in<br />
Europe, several film companies and 50% of Sony they have ties to the Nazi Regime for whom they published Propaganda and from whom they received large numbers of slave laborers (Oh yeah they were using slaves in the 1930s and 40s). </p>
<p>On top of that, the Foundation is a neo liberal think tank (in the USA that means neo conservative) that funds active political and educational projects by its own<br />
members, spending millions of Euros a month. When the Company bought Random House in 1998 they falsified History to hide their Nazi connections and activities but had to publicly admit that they did so in 2002. They are well known for their attempts to subvert freedom of information, union activities and state controlled education and medicine.They formerly owned the controlling interest in AOL Europe, are still a major Internet Provider and have control of the German<br />
content of Wikipedia. Obama&#8217;s current wealth is based on his advances from these guys. Still think he&#8217;s different to Bush? He is, he&#8217;s a lot worse! Bush&#8217;s grandfather traded with the Nazis, Obama works for them. </p>
<p>WeezulBadjur</p>
<p>&#8220;The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the party<br />
that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.&#8221; ~ Lord Acton</p>
<p>&#8220;No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Never give<br />
it.&#8221; ~ Eleanor Roosevelt</p>
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		<title>By: kat in your hat</title>
		<link>http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/06/14/saturday-morning-hangover-kvetch-and-open-thread/comment-page-19/#comment-10283</link>
		<dc:creator>kat in your hat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 18:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pumapac.org/?p=54#comment-10283</guid>
		<description>ACTION ALERT! Vote YES!!!

Hi. Please vote in this online poll:
Is the backlash against Keith Olbermann warranted?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/12/keith-olbermann-backlash_n_106775.html

(You may need to refresh the page by clicking the headline, but the poll is at bottom of the article.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ACTION ALERT! Vote YES!!!</p>
<p>Hi. Please vote in this online poll:<br />
Is the backlash against Keith Olbermann warranted?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/12/keith-olbermann-backlash_n_106775.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/12/keith-olbermann-backlash_n_106775.html</a></p>
<p>(You may need to refresh the page by clicking the headline, but the poll is at bottom of the article.)</p>
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		<title>By: Asian4Hillary</title>
		<link>http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/06/14/saturday-morning-hangover-kvetch-and-open-thread/comment-page-19/#comment-10121</link>
		<dc:creator>Asian4Hillary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pumapac.org/?p=54#comment-10121</guid>
		<description>csuzeq,

Use gentle persuasion and cite facts. Talk gently. I&#039;m very lucky I think, the person next to me made it clear if I even think of voting for NOBAMA even in my dreams, I&#039;m just as stupid as the rest of his koolaid drinkers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>csuzeq,</p>
<p>Use gentle persuasion and cite facts. Talk gently. I&#8217;m very lucky I think, the person next to me made it clear if I even think of voting for NOBAMA even in my dreams, I&#8217;m just as stupid as the rest of his koolaid drinkers.</p>
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